New problem "next unread" (not sure how new)

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New problem "next unread" (not sure how new)

Jack
Hello all,

I think I started noticing this relatively recently - probably about  
the time (or shortly after) the recent set of updates related to  
threading.  (git head)  Most of the time I hit the "Next unread" button  
(on the toolbar) when all messages in the current mailbox are read, it  
does go to an unread message in the next mailbox with any uread  
messages.  I actually still haven't paid enough attention to confirm  
how it chooses the specific message.  However, sometimes (fairly  
consistent by mailbox, I think, but all my mailboxes are maildir  
(except inbox)) it goes to the message with the id number one less than  
the first unread message.  As we've discussed in the past, the message  
id ordering seems to be essentially random, but likely the order in  
which the messages are read when scanning (or reading) the directory.  
Is it possible there is an off-by-one thing going on?  I'd be more  
certain if it were more consistent.  The reason it's annoying is that  
due to the ordering - it sometimes chooses a message nowhere near the  
first unread, when ordered by date with JWZ threading.

Thanks for any thoughts.

Jack
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Re: New problem "next unread" (not sure how new)

Peter Bloomfield
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Hash: SHA1

Hello Jack:

On 05/15/2017 05:46:42 PM Mon, Jack wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> I think I started noticing this relatively recently - probably about the time (or shortly after) the recent set of updates related to threading.  (git head)  Most of the time I hit the "Next unread" button (on the toolbar) when all messages in the current mailbox are read, it does go to an unread message in the next mailbox with any uread messages.  I actually still haven't paid enough attention to confirm how it chooses the specific message.  However, sometimes (fairly consistent by mailbox, I think, but all my mailboxes are maildir (except inbox)) it goes to the message with the id number one less than the first unread message.  As we've discussed in the past, the message id ordering seems to be essentially random, but likely the order in which the messages are read when scanning (or reading) the directory.  Is it possible there is an off-by-one thing going on?  I'd be more certain if it were more consistent.  The reason it's annoying is that due to the ordering - it sometimes
>  chooses a message nowhere near the first unread, when ordered by date with JWZ threading.
>
> Thanks for any thoughts.

I haven't seen that, as far as I can remember. I have list messages filtered into a Maildir mailbox, and it seems to me that next-unread takes me to an unread message quite reliably. As I recall, when a mailbox is opened, the number of the first unread message, if any, is stored, and that's the message that next-unread takes you to. It's often not the earliest in the current sorting, but it should always be unread. After any message in the mailbox is read, next-unread should go to the next in the current sorting.

You're right that in a Maildir, message numbers do reflect the order in which files are read from the directory, which becomes quite arbitrary over time. Assigning them by age would make better sense, but on the face of it that would require calling stat on each filename, which could add significant overhead; perhaps creation times could be cached between sessions…

Suggestions?

Peter
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Re: New problem "next unread" (not sure how new)

Jack
Hello Peter,

On 5/17/2017 3:39 PM, Peter Bloomfield wrote:

> Hello Jack:
>
> On 05/15/2017 05:46:42 PM Mon, Jack wrote:
>> I think I started noticing this relatively recently - probably about
>> the time (or shortly after) the recent set of updates related to
>> threading.  (git head)  Most of the time I hit the "Next unread"
>> button (on the toolbar) when all messages in the current mailbox are
>> read, it does go to an unread message in the next mailbox with any
>> uread messages.  I actually still haven't paid enough attention to
>> confirm how it chooses the specific message.  However, sometimes
>> (fairly consistent by mailbox, I think, but all my mailboxes are
>> maildir (except inbox)) it goes to the message with the id number one
>> less than the first unread message.  As we've discussed in the past,
>> the message id ordering seems to be essentially random, but likely
>> the order in which the messages are read when scanning (or reading)
>> the directory.  Is it possible there is an off-by-one thing going
>> on?  I'd be more certain if it were more consistent.  The reason it's
>> annoying is that due to the ordering - it sometimes chooses a message
>> nowhere near the first unread, when ordered by date with JWZ threading.
>>
>> Thanks for any thoughts.
>
> I haven't seen that, as far as I can remember. I have list messages
> filtered into a Maildir mailbox, and it seems to me that next-unread
> takes me to an unread message quite reliably. As I recall, when a
> mailbox is opened, the number of the first unread message, if any, is
> stored, and that's the message that next-unread takes you to. It's
> often not the earliest in the current sorting, but it should always be
> unread. After any message in the mailbox is read, next-unread should
> go to the next in the current sorting.
Most of the time, I get what you see, but sometimes I get an already
read message.  Definitely strange.

> You're right that in a Maildir, message numbers do reflect the order
> in which files are read from the directory, which becomes quite
> arbitrary over time. Assigning them by age would make better sense,
> but on the face of it that would require calling stat on each
> filename, which could add significant overhead; perhaps creation times
> could be cached between sessions…
>
> Suggestions?
What about finding the first unread in the displayed order, after any
threading and/or sorting is done.  I don't think any additional file
access would be necessary, although it might already have been needed to
do the ordering.

Jack
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Re: New problem "next unread" (not sure how new)

Jack
In reply to this post by Peter Bloomfield
Hello Peter,

On 2017.05.17 15:39, Peter Bloomfield wrote:

> Hello Jack:
>
> On 05/15/2017 05:46:42 PM Mon, Jack wrote:
>> Hello all,
>>
>> I think I started noticing this relatively recently - probably about  
>> the time (or shortly after) the recent set of updates related to  
>> threading.  (git head)  Most of the time I hit the "Next unread"  
>> button (on the toolbar) when all messages in the current mailbox are  
>> read, it does go to an unread message in the next mailbox with any  
>> uread messages.  I actually still haven't paid enough attention to  
>> confirm how it chooses the specific message.  However, sometimes  
>> (fairly consistent by mailbox, I think, but all my mailboxes are  
>> maildir (except inbox)) it goes to the message with the id number  
>> one less than the first unread message.  As we've discussed in the  
>> past, the message id ordering seems to be essentially random, but  
>> likely the order in which the messages are read when scanning (or  
>> reading) the directory.  Is it possible there is an off-by-one thing  
>> going on?  I'd be more certain if it were more consistent.  The  
>> reason it's annoying is that due to the ordering - it sometimes  
>> chooses a message nowhere near the first unread, when ordered by  
>> date with JWZ threading.
>>
>> Thanks for any thoughts.
>
> I haven't seen that, as far as I can remember. I have list messages  
> filtered into a Maildir mailbox, and it seems to me that next-unread  
> takes me to an unread message quite reliably. As I recall, when a  
> mailbox is opened, the number of the first unread message, if any, is  
> stored, and that's the message that next-unread takes you to. It's  
> often not the earliest in the current sorting, but it should always  
> be unread. After any message in the mailbox is read, next-unread  
> should go to the next in the current sorting.
>
> You're right that in a Maildir, message numbers do reflect the order  
> in which files are read from the directory, which becomes quite  
> arbitrary over time. Assigning them by age would make better sense,  
> but on the face of it that would require calling stat on each  
> filename, which could add significant overhead; perhaps creation  
> times could be cached between sessions…

It just happened again, but I have now noticed more details.  This is  
in my "Balsa" folder.  There was only one new message (your Geometry  
creep response, message number 438) which is displayed as the last  
message in the folder, indented under your original and Albrecht's  
response.  The selected message (having hit "Next unread" from the  
inbox) was message 435, my question about bugs.gnome.org from July,  
2010.  This message is frequently the one selected when the next unread  
is in this mailbox.  This message is displayed near the top of the  
list.   However, if I sort by message number (still with JWZ  
threading,)  this is the LAST message displayed, with messages 436 and  
437 above it in the list, all indented under some earlier message.  I'm  
beginning to suspect this issue is related to message threading - and I  
wonder if many other folks use JWZ threading?

Jack
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